However, for better or worse, Tumi and the Volume was never fully considered as a rap band. Their sound was often more judged in terms of soundscape, compositions and textures rather than in terms of punchlines, rhymes and flows. For the hip-hop lover and addict Tumi was, this may have been limiting, or frustrating. In 2012, the ensemble split and Tumi became Stogie T, his new name taken from a type of cigar. The rapper inspired himself from both the chic and the gangster aura of the object to renew his artistry, dropping his debut solo and self-titled album in 2016 while inviting some of the year\u2019s hip-hop leaders on it (AKA<\/a>, Emtee, Nasty C<\/a>, Nadia Nakai\u2026). He continued his journey with Honey and Pain<\/em> in 2018 and The Empire of Sheep<\/em> in 2020, balancing his craft between deep lyricism and more classical hip-hop sounds, before signing to the iconic and legendary rap label Def Jam in 2021. <\/p>\n\n\n\n When watching Stogie T perform on stage with a full live band, revelling in every word and every note, it is difficult to not see the legacy of Tumi and the Volume. Yet, when watching him rap acapella for an entire song, hyping the public to the maximum, it is as difficult not to see the turn he took with Stogie T. Backstage, PAM had a chat with the South African hip-hop OG about his career, his status and his next moves. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Knowing your history, after all these years, how does it feel to be performing with a live band?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Most of this band, the drummer, the guitarist, the bass player, they are jazz musicians. The thing about it is I never used to play with jazz artists. I used to play with rock or reggae type guys as musicians. But the reason I like these guys is that they\u2019re young enough to have hip-hop in their schools as well. So it\u2019s easy to translate. The worst thing is when you’re trying to play hip-hop, you get a live band and they change the genre because it\u2019s live. It still has to be hip-hop. More rich soundwise, and with musicality, but it can\u2019t change the genre and start being full jazz or soul. <\/p>\n\n\n\n How important are instruments in your current way of producing music? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I pretty much started with a band. But when I changed from Tumi to Stogie T, I really wanted to work with a DJ. I didn’t want to do this live thing because I wanted to do more \u201chip-hop hip-hop\u201d, classic hip-hop. So this is me getting back to the live thing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I wanted it to be more classic, just to be hard hitting beats, rhymes\u2026 A lot of people received Tumi & The Volumes as a novelty. It was like [exaggerating voice] \u201coh, white guys and black guys from Africa, and playing like world music<\/em>\u201d. And I was like \u201cfuck that! I\u2019m a rapper bro<\/em>\u201d! I\u2019m not trying to be something extra. I want you to judge me as a rapper. I got a bit frustrated about that and I decided I wanted to do this. So now, a lot of the music we’re playing is music that fits the live format, but it\u2019s also beats. <\/p>\n\n\n\n You are widely considered as an OG. What\u2019s an OG in a South African context?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n In the South African context, a real definition of an OG is DJ Ready D, from Prophets of the City. If you talk about an OG, that\u2019s an OG. Guys who were here in the beginning, in the inception, the guys who did workshops, who were B Boys, who were DJs. Me? I\u2019m just\u2026 old (laughs<\/em>). That\u2019s it bro! I\u2019ve just been here so long. And I think it\u2019s also about values. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I absolutely think about my legacy. I don\u2019t know about workshops though. They asked me to be in a panel, I said no thank you. A lot of these conferences, especially here, it feels like talk talk talk, bullshit bullshit bullshit, and I feel like most of the things happening are always on the ground. All these people, they never really come to the ground and I do appreciate the people who know how to work in that system, but for me, I\u2019m only really interested in preserving and thriving. The best way I know how to preserve and thrive is to be on a stage. <\/p>\n\n\n\n But I do really think about my legacy, I really do. I think especially as I said, I\u2019m old. I\u2019ve got a fourteen year-old son, and for me it\u2019s important for him to know that other kids have dads who are doctors, but his dad is a rapper. And it\u2019s just as valuable and important. I\u2019m not just entertaining, it\u2019s also absolutely a job. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Speaking about preserving, what is your view on the current South African hip-hop?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n There are nice things. There\u2019s always gonna be battle rap in South Africa, cyphers, freestyles\u2026 That shit is always gonna live. I always know it\u2019s healthy and I do a TV show called \u201cFreestyle Fridays\u201d which started online, and that\u2019s how I know that there’s still a lot of talent around. It\u2019s not mainstream, but these guys exist. But if you look at amapiano, the evolution of the sound, it\u2019s refreshing. I like it because I recognize that energy, I remember that energy when we were the outsiders, the guys who were disrupting. I recognize it for what it is and I support it, I have nothing against it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What can you tell us about your latest album? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It was called The Empire of Sheep<\/em>. I felt like I really captured, pre-covid, the sense of the country. I felt like people were losing trust in leadership, the dream. And now that covid happened, let\u2019s forget about it, it\u2019s done, there\u2019s no more dream (laughs<\/em>). But that\u2019s my job: my job is to be the conscience of people, musically and artistically. <\/p>\n\n\n\n You are now going to pursue that mission with Def Jam, which is particularly iconic in hip-hop\u2026 <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s the next move. It\u2019s hard to use words like \u201cit\u2019s a dream come true\u201d, because I think the work will determine whether it\u2019s a dream come true. But me, I don’t take it for granted. I know what this institution is, I know what Def Jam means. I\u2019m a part of that legacy now, in some strange way. A guy from South Africa, can you imagine? I\u2019m part of the Rick Rubins, the Jays, the Dames, the DMXs, the Redmans\u2026 <\/p>\n\n\n\n In this legacy, do you think South African rappers have a specific role to play?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Absolutely! There\u2019s this big preoccupation in South Africa in finding a South African sound and I think amapiano is part of that. But I think the voice of South African hip-hop does best when it doesn\u2019t care about what anyone thinks. That\u2019s when it\u2019s at its best. When it\u2019s trying to break a market\u2026 just shut up. That\u2019s why you get really dope MCs and dope artists who are so unique, and the scene in South Africa is so great because it\u2019s so varied. You get stuff that\u2019s more traditional, that\u2019s more dance, that\u2019s more lyrical\u2026 everyone can fit in. <\/p>\n\n\n\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/12\/stogie-t-1-1010x1531.jpg\")
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