{"id":39599,"date":"2020-04-03T10:00:31","date_gmt":"2020-04-03T09:00:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/?p=39599"},"modified":"2021-04-08T14:37:34","modified_gmt":"2021-04-08T13:37:34","slug":"tony-allen-hugh-masekela-rejoice-interview-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/tony-allen-hugh-masekela-rejoice-interview-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Tony Allen and Hugh Masekela, two giants reunited beyond death"},"content":{"rendered":"<h4 class=\"pam-featured-content pam-featured-content\"  ><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-38544 pam-featured-content pam-featured-content\"   src=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1400\" height=\"841\" srcset=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant.jpg 1400w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant-759x456.jpg 759w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant-1010x607.jpg 1010w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant-661x397.jpg 661w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant-465x279.jpg 465w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0570df26-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-lead-photo-credit-brett-rubin-bernard-benant-375x225.jpg 375w\" sizes=\"(min-width:1010px) 759px,100vw\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/h4>\n<h4><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b>Tony Allen has completed the project he began ten years ago with his friend Hugh Masekela, who left us in 2018.\u00a0Following the release of this new album, Rejoice, PAM met the brilliant drummer in Paris. Interview.<\/b><\/span><\/h4>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He chose the shade and the seat, rather than the raised fist and centre stage. The beat rather than the spotlight. And yet his unique tempo took him on one of the greatest musical adventures of the last century, notably alongside Fela. Aged 80, legendary drum<span style=\"color: #333333;\">mer\u00a0<a style=\"color: #333333;\" href=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/tag\/tony-allen\/\">Tony Allen<\/a>\u00a0has rele<\/span>ased a new record, a collaboration with the immense South African tru<span style=\"color: #333333;\">mpeter\u00a0<a style=\"color: #333333;\" href=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/tag\/hugh-masekela\/\">Hugh Masekela<\/a>, who died i<\/span>n 2018. Allen has unearthed and reworked tapes recorded in London ten years ago that have never before been released. To bring to fruition what he started with Brother Hugh, he invited along a new generation of British jazz musicians, including Tom Herbert (Acoustic Ladyland), Joe Armon-Jones (Ezra Collective), Mutale Chashi (Kokoroko) and Steve Williamson. Between Lagos, Jo\u2019burg, and London things are sounding hot! \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Take care and listen to Rejoice! And find out what Tony Allen himself had to say in this interview he gave to PAM.<\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nWhen did you first meet Hugh Masekela?\u00a0<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p>We met in the early 70s in Lagos. Hugh was great friends with Fela. He even recorded at EMI in Lagos with Hedzoleh Soundz, a Ghanaian group whom Fela had introduced him to. They were such good friends, always together, so we had the opportunity to play with him. And then we met again in 1977 for the famous FESTAC festival in Nigeria. At the time, he was living in exile in America \u2013 that&#8217;s where we met in person \u2013 but I\u2019d known his music since the 60s. He was a big name on the jazz scene!<\/p>\n<p>At the time Masekela was one of the best trumpeters in the world. We had often come across one another at festivals, and that&#8217;s how we decided to record this record, between two concerts in London in 2010. Whenever we saw each other, we would say we have to work on it again, but sadly he left us before that was possible\u2026<span style=\"font-size: 18px; font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/XMOJg16oHdI\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nHow did Hugh Masekela&#8217;s music come to Nigeria in the 1960s?<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The radio played a lot of South African music, so we were hearing sounds from all over the world, including zulu jazz. I grew up listening to this. And then of course we listened to Miriam Makeba! (who was, at one time, married to Hugh Masekela, ed). This is what enabled South African music to be heard throughout West Africa. In Nigeria, we don&#8217;t have the same musical approach \u2013 the rhythms are different, as are the languages \u2013 but for us at the time there were two homelands of jazz: America and South Africa. We were living through colonialism and even though we were all experiencing the same thing, South Africa had a special status.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nEven in exile far from South Africa, Masekela used his music \u2018as a weapon\u2019, like Fela. Were they fighting the same fight?<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p>Not really. Hugh was not as radical as Fela, not quite so direct, even though he was also rebelling, against apartheid in his case.<\/p>\n<p>But I must say that this isn\u2019t what attracted me in his music, nor to that of Fela. Anyway, when I got to know Fela, he wasn\u2019t really singing against the system. His activism started later. Hugh had a committed approach, and he was maybe a little more diplomatic, a little less brutal. I also did a lot to attack the system \u2013 especially with Fela \u2013 but what interested me above all was working with brilliant musicians. The debates can come later!<span style=\"font-size: 18px; font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h5><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nDo you think music is more spiritual than political?\u00a0<\/b><\/span><\/h5>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Music is spiritual. If you know how to tell a good story, music can be healing. It can do a lot, depending on your state of mind. Above all, music is infinite. It will still be there when we\u2019re gone. We&#8217;re just trying to do what we can to make good use of it when inspiration strikes.\u00a0<br style=\"clear: both;\" \/>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-38545\" src=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1400\" height=\"894\" srcset=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers.jpg 1400w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers-759x485.jpg 759w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers-1010x645.jpg 1010w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers-661x422.jpg 661w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers-465x297.jpg 465w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/0d67bdad-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-studio-composite-credit-gavin-rodgers-375x239.jpg 375w\" sizes=\"(min-width:1010px) 759px,100vw\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nHow did you work on this record, ten years after the first recordings, and in the absence of Hugh Masekela?\u00a0<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This album isn\u2019t exactly the same as when we recorded because there\u2019s been a ten-year gap. It had to be updated a bit. To be honest, we didn\u2019t think this project would ever see the light of day! It was the producer of the l<span style=\"color: #333333;\">abel\u00a0<a style=\"color: #333333;\" href=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/tag\/world-circuit-records\/\">World Ci<\/a><a style=\"color: #333333;\" href=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/tag\/world-circuit-records\/\">rcuit<\/a>,\u00a0<a style=\"color: #333333;\" href=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/tag\/nick-gold\/\">Nick Gold<\/a>\u00a0(B<\/span>uena Vista Social Club, Oumou Sangar\u00e9, Ali Farka Tour\u00e9, Afrocubism, etc.) who produced the tapes and asked me to finish it without him&#8230;I wanted to pay tribute to Hugh Masekela.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We recorded in just two days, writing and composing on the spot. Nothing was written down. It\u2019s a meeting between my universe and his jazz so there\u2019s no partition \u2013 it\u2019s more like a shelf. When you hear Hugh playing, you realise that he has such a special sound. No one plays like him! He speaks his own language<\/span><span style=\"font-size: 18px; font-weight: 400;\">.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nSo first you recorded as a trio \u2013 bass, drums and trumpet?\u00a0<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, the drums are the root, the foundation. I don&#8217;t really play Afrobeat beats on this record, but with another drummer it would\u2019ve sounded different. There\u2019s intensity, but not really technique \u2013 it&#8217;s just my way of living and speaking. This is how I make music. And that&#8217;s what I wanted Hugh to use, I wanted him to play around with it&#8230;We were very effective, but two days wasn\u2019t enough to finish. To make it sound 2020, I wanted to change all the bass lines and add more instruments and Nick Gold found some very talented young English musicians.\u00a0<br style=\"clear: both;\" \/>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-38543\" src=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1400\" height=\"978\" srcset=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers.jpg 1400w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers-759x530.jpg 759w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers-1010x706.jpg 1010w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers-661x462.jpg 661w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers-465x325.jpg 465w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/03\/f02fa84a-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-livingston-2010-credit-gavin-rodgers-375x262.jpg 375w\" sizes=\"(min-width:1010px) 759px,100vw\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\n<\/b><b>This record is an original. It\u2019s mostly instrumental, although you do sing on the single \u201cWe\u2019ve Landed\u201d don\u2019t you?<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, I say \u201817, 18, 19 bobos!\u2019 In Nigerian slang, bobos means \u2018guys\u2019, or young people. The song is for people who are 17, 18 or 19 years old. At that age you have to start building your life. Not later! You mustn&#8217;t be lazy, you have to focus on the future. There&#8217;s not a second to waste!\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nSo were you already looking to the future at that age?\u00a0<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, that\u2019s when I started playing drums. I was a radio technician for a German company at the time, repairing radio and TV sets. I loved music and I went out to clubs every night, so I made musician friends who let me sit in front of their drums and play. At 20 I quit my job and became a professional drummer. It was my destiny. Drums are more than my job. I can spend hours playing. It\u2019s my passion.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\n<\/b><b>On the album Masekela says \u2018Lagos never gonna be the same, never without Fela\u2019?<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That\u2019s how he felt\u2026he got to know Fela\u2019s Lagos. Maybe Jo\u2019burg won&#8217;t be the same without him.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Back then, we were the ones who made Lagos jump. But that freedom has disappeared. All the clubs have become evangelical churches. That\u2019s where they play live music now<\/span><span style=\"font-size: 18px; font-weight: 400;\">!\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nIn the 70s, was Lagos the city of the future?<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Lagos I knew doesn\u2019t exist anymore. It was an incredible city, there was life and live music 24\/7. When Hugh Masekela came, things started happening! It was getting a little crazy because of the military government, but we could get by. Today it\u2019s an urban jungle. The problem is the government. The authorities are stealing from the people. Most of their children study in Europe or the United States and just come back for treatments. Look at what\u2019s happening in 2020 and imagine what things will be like in 2050! This is my country. I love it. It could be a great country, but the leaders aren\u2019t up to it!<\/span><\/p>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #127db5;\"><b><br \/>\nThis is definitely an album we\u2019ll still be listening to in 2050. How do you keep up with the times? Is it because, as Miles Davis said, \u2018afrobeat is the music of the future\u2019<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don\u2019t think I know how to stay young, but what I do know is that I&#8217;m here and I&#8217;m doing the best I can. I don\u2019t like to eat the same things all the time or dress the same way, and it\u2019s the same with my music, otherwise I get tired. We can no longer count on the bands who make Afrobeats, and some are even looting Fela&#8217;s music. Music will always have waves and things go in and out of fashion. I don\u2019t predict the future because music is spiritual. You can\u2019t predict the future \u2013 you just play with what arrives in the moment<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Rejoice<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, Tony Allen &amp; Hugh Masekela, released 20th March on<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><span style=\"color: #333333;\">\u00a0<a style=\"color: #333333;\" href=\"https:\/\/worldcircuit.lnk.to\/WCYouTubeID\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">World Circuit<\/a>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-35600\" src=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover.jpg\" alt=\"Rejoice Tony Allen Hugh Masekela cover\" width=\"856\" height=\"856\" srcset=\"https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover.jpg 600w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover-100x100.jpg 100w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover-465x465.jpg 465w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover-375x375.jpg 375w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover-200x200.jpg 200w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover-85x85.jpg 85w, https:\/\/pan-african-music-production.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/01\/3ec73b99-rejoice-tony-allen-hugh-masekela-cover-73x73.jpg 73w\" sizes=\"(min-width:1010px) 759px,100vw\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Tony Allen has completed the project he began ten years ago with his friend Hugh Masekela, who left us in 2018.\u00a0Following the release of this new album, Rejoice, PAM met the brilliant drummer in Paris. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":13,"featured_media":38544,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[7833,7834],"tags":[5456,36732],"location":[],"yst_prominent_words":[],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39599"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/13"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=39599"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39599\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/38544"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=39599"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=39599"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=39599"},{"taxonomy":"location","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/location?post=39599"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pan-african-music.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=39599"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}